CreatorOfCulture: Welcome Brian Moran. Great to have you on creator of culture to chat about your perspective, which is very interesting and fantastic perspective, coming from a background in the military, Special Operations, civilian, as a dad, as working various places, volunteering in various places in the industry of agriculture. And what you do on the side to help folks and to participate, so I’d love to let a dove right in and just ask you…. man, it’s been a long time since we spoke about this particular concept, but I’d love to start off with a little bit about you and why culture, from your perspective, is just so important, especially today.
Brian Moran: That’s awesome. Really good to talk to you. It’s an absolute pleasure to do this, and it’s something that I can really wrap my head around, which is pretty wild. I did retire in 09’ from the military. It was a good run. I consider myself old, fat and slow at this point, and one of my assets I can give to wherever I am or whoever I’m surrounding, and it’s definitely a good run. It helps so much, being able to pull in a lot of that experience, but most importantly, to be able to apply that experience in the civilian workforce after I retired, and that’s where it really can be a home run, and you’re one of the key mentors that helped me establish that, come across that point, which is good, so it’s more than happy to be able to give back to you Mike.
CreatorOfCulture: Pleasure is all mine. I guess we talk about first off, there’s two kind of concepts, and two types of approaches…. and concepts for that matter. The military life and the approach to prioritizing: the job at hand, the mission, people, and then yourself, and then maybe how it changes in civilian life so to speak with everyday activities, what you do, what you do at work, and what you do volunteering and so forth. Can you just explain each of those and just kind of the differences and the similarities.
Brian Moran: Looking at the military side of the thing, it’s a very unique environment, and I’m sure there were some people in the military that had a different type of experience, but for me, starting in special operations, doing intel work, doing medical work, a lot of the cutting edge stuff that I felt comfortable with. And also mundane stuff. I didn’t let myself as a special operations or I did this or I did that, it was more looking at what the mission was… And that’s our fault sometimes in the military. Well, you look in the military, you’re looking at the job at hand, and that’s the most important thing that is number one priority, whatever we can do to get it done, and secondly, we look at the people, the people around me are the people I want to recruit or the people I want be with, to be able to do that job at hand, and then the last person I take care of or think about is myself. And that can be a detriment. We’ll get to that a little further. A lot of times we found so many problems with marital problems, where you were always putting the job first, and I’m sure there’s people, even on the civilian side that have these issues, alcoholism, we’ve even heard a suicide, but it’s this team or a camaraderie that can’t be replicated really
We come close. You’re familiar with the sports background, fire departments sometimes come close, maybe if we had a big fire and everybody had that chance to ride the way, get that rush there and then come out alive, but for the most part, it’s that military spectrum and especially after September 11th, it’s that mission first. And if you’re not worried about the mission and you’re worried about yourself or getting promoted or retiring, all these little things, it can kind of fade away what the actual true thing… Which is the job I had. I found on the civilian side that a lot of people are worried about their self, which is… Okay, I’m kind of jealous sometimes. And they look at, how can I get this promotion? How can I get extra pay? What can I do to make myself in a better position for the future and… Yeah, that’s important. And then they’re looking at the job and then you be further down the line, they’re looking at the people they’re working with. To me, it’s like an opposite spectrum, it should be flipped the other way or somewhere in between, because the somewhere in between may not have that issue where you’re committing yourself too much to that job, and I still don’t understand the military, the people I serve where they were absolutely amazing, from the Special Ops people that I still keep in touch with to the regular people, the real Army that I got the opportunity to serve with in combat support hospitals, training units. A lot of times we get focused on just the tip of the spear, and we realize there’s so much more to be there, and it’s kind of that concept where you’re prioritizing the mission first in the military, your people that you have, how can you accomplish that mission with the people that you have, and then in the end, you’re worried about yourself, Civilian-type a lot of times, I perceive or notice that people are worried about themselves, number one, and then they’re worried about the job or concerned with the job, and then at the last people you work with to move those people back up the spectrum a little bit, I would be more comfortable with people that weren’t the rock stars, but I was able to spend the time to mentor and work with them, to bring them up to a better level, as opposed to have somebody just spotlight and show up one day and say, I can do this job better than him.
Let me move forward and I’ll get promoted. I would much rather have the ones last picked and baseball or whatever it is, sorry to throw in the sports analogy there… It goes very well. Well.
CreatorOfCulture: This is interesting that there’s kind of a converse, if you will, with the prioritization of… Of the mission, the people. And then yourself last, maybe a flip side. Can we jump into the military side for a second, so as a person going into the military and then through training, people talk about culture that you feel it… It’s hard to define, it’s hard to label, but you know when it’s really good, you know when it’s bad, and sometimes you know when it’s kind of in the middle. Maybe it’s not so pushed to a spectrum either way. Do you remember anything from your experiences, you kind of had that feeling of, Wow, “I just feel a part of something. I feel that I’m supported, I feel I just know it.” Is there any story or any experiences like that that you can remember off the top of your head?
Brian Moran: Yeah, I’ll turn it right back at you Mike… And you’ll know me as a person that does like to joke around and have a good time, that yet when the job comes in hand, I’m all there, I would give my life for you without a hesitation, and that’s the type of attitude that we have in the military that without… We don’t do it for flag country. Honor is certainly not for the money. The prosperity, we do it for whatever reason, somehow we’re there with the people who are working with… In my greatest gift I can give to you is my life, and it seems crazy, and people that don’t understand it probably will never get it, and they’ll say I was the one that was going to join the military, but I never did… It’s hard to explain. And to have someone that’s willing to give their life to you makes you do things, stepping out of your comfort zone and going forward, and it doesn’t even have to be in combat that you know whoever you use to your left, to your right, behind you in front of you is willing to step up at a moment’s notice and go forward and do the thing is wild, and then we also respect those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, not to get dark, but we have to live our lives as if they would live their lives I have so many soldiers that I’m living their lives or to try to be a better husband, a better person, a better leader, a better mentor, and it’s difficult, it’s difficult at times.
It’s hard, but that’s one of the aha moments that you have where you look at it and you say, Mike, Mike, I know you, I would do whatever it takes to keep you alive and go forward, and that’s the aha moment that you realize you’re looking around, there’s a few. I’m sure in the military that are there for the promotion or for the uniform looks cool or whatever it is, but for the most part, that’s what it is, and that’s the stuff we miss when we get out, we retire… A lot of us get stuck in something I call the letter jacket syndrome, like your high school letter jacket that you have, and you’re aware, and it’s been five years since you graduated in high school, but you’re still wearing that letter jacket and acting that way. And it’s kind of crazy. A lot of us moved on and have that moment, but we still live back in who we are, you can’t let it identify yourself, you gotta be able to pull on it and use that to help you in your life. That’s it.
CreatorOfCulture: I’ve never been a part of that and working with you and others along the way, it just opens up your eyes through just how you operate, you treat people and experiences you’ve had that… That environment is right for people to be close, and because you have to rely on each other, lives are on the line, the country is on the line, and you have to do that. Conversely, with the civilian side, people are literally, unless it could be in a tough situation where our life was getting laid down on the line, so to speak, but mostly like the everyday organization might not have that experience and people may not have the experience…. because it’s so unique. So, I wanted to ask you if some of that feeling was to be transferred to the civilian side, whether it’s a group of volunteer group, a community, how do people feel that way? Is there a way for people to kind of feel that way about their fellow person that they’re standing next to, they may not be going into a conflict situation, but they may be going into a tough project together, or they’re going to go in to make a presentation for a grant, are they going make a presentation to a City Council for extra budget for their program that they’re volunteering for, they need to back each other up.
Do you have any suggestions on that, because that seems to be a really good part of culture, is that people are caring on a one another?
Brian Moran: It is, when you look at any of those projects, we’ll call the projects, if you identify from a volunteer system to work to anything that’s going forward… I use the word right there, it’s going forward. If that person or those individuals instead of constantly looking forward, could actually turn around and look behind them or to the side of them and see the type of people that they’re surrounded with and try to figure out their motivation, and I’m not trained as a full disclaimer I was a counter-intelligent agent back in the day before I retired, I want to know their motivation. And that’s so true. Is, “why are you here?” And then it’s not like calling somebody out, it’s like I’m actually taking the time to want know what my team is, you’ve all heard the weakest link, you’re only stronger your week is this link, well, if I can take that weakest link and identify some issues that it has… And then move that forward and make them even stronger every day, that’s going to be a team in that team or that link that used to be a little weaker is going to appreciate and have that buy-in to be able to follow you to the end no matter what.
If the budget gets cut, if there’s a leg off, that’s the end, it’s not this catastrophic thing, but we can’t assimilate that back into the civilian force, there’s no doubt of audit….definitely no doubt about it.
CreatorOfCulture: I was gonna say, you want… to understanding each other, you were in environment previously in your military life where you just… With a group of people that just got it, you fell into the culture, and then I’m sure along the way there were leaders that you had that are reinforcing that and reminding and cost the reminders that you’re there for each other. Talk about how in the civilian, the civilian world, you mentioned about a very, very fascinating concept, and it relates to people and understanding not only why they’re there, but kind of making sure that as they go through their volunteering or they’re organizing or their employment are working, what the environment is where people are grouped together, of someone to kind of be there to make sure they’re understood, they’re heard, they’re taken care of. And this is Brian, this is your term, I’ll say it here, but this is… Your term is the concept of “The Handler”. Let’s go into that, I’d love to hear what your thoughts on this.
Brian Moran: So the original handlers that I’m familiar with in those in law enforcement along those lines are usually an informant or a source, someone that are trying to get things… To do things for you. So it’s not that we’re exploiting something, we’ll just use that term as a handler, if someone’s to come back and look at the team and be in charge, not so much of the team to lead it forward, but to look backward and realize what our strengths and weaknesses are and what can we do to strive when the stress level is going out, and basically to have that team and be able to move it forward in their emotional well-being, their time management, to know when we’re just throwing bad money after bad money, trying to get a deadline done when we actually need to back up and do something fun, something simple as sports, competitive, anything like that, just for that moment, to be able to say, Alright, I understand the mission is very important, but you’re not going to accomplish admission without the people. And we need to look at that people… So a workplace could have a handler, and one of the fears of mine would be that’s the one to pick up your laundry, to make your appointments along those lines, we’re not talking about the administrative assistant or a secretary or somebody that’s there for you, we’re looking at the whole team…
In the team concept of what the team can go forward, in the military, you didn’t have to know every job, but one of the things you did know, and those people that move forward realize that they knew people. And that was one of the things, and how to get those people the best potential… A lot of these people, even sometimes the what we call leadership challenges, those were the more fun because you really had to work a little harder to get the best out of them, and when they actually did, it was a super home run, it was… I remember serving with someone that spoke three languages in different dialects, and just a brilliant, what I call a military on paper or a rock star, and he was an interrogator in the civilian job, he drove delivered pizzas up in Maine. And it’s like one of those people or like, you’re trying to figure out what’s putting them together, that’s the one you’re going to a little time in to figure out what their motivation is, and if they speak Arabic and several dialects, they are writing their own ticket to a career in the military, but yet they’re delivering pizzas at home, something…
It’s almost a flag, a positive flag. You’re trying to figure out what their actual motivation is, it’s good, and to know that on the civilian side where these people are coming from, what they’re doing… What is their motivation? What is their priority? They putting themselves first, the job first, their co-workers first, and if you can try to change that, that hierarchy almost slightly a little bit and just identify it… You can get a lot of stuff done. That’s my theory, I’m not 100% sure. We’d have to apply it. So somebody’s willing to test that. Let’s go forward.
CreatorOfCulture: Well let’s put it this way, Brian, a lot of feedback regarding culture, this mystical concept through this project, the CreatorOfCulture, trying to pin it down a little bit so it can be understood a little more deeply, but it always comes back to… And it’s been stated. It’s been written about, it’s been talked about. But just having a really deep understanding of the people you’re around so you can understand their lives and their motivations. However, sometimes people have things going on in their own life, they have things going on with them themselves, and they might not have the time to turn around and learn deeply about the next person they might be right next to…. and this concept of the handler, say, maybe if it’s an independent person, somebody who could… That’s whole job is to really know the team and now people… And they could bounce around, they could be a traveling handler.
Brian Moran: This right around to you from what you just said, like… So that person that we have, we’re assuming in the type of leadership goal that may not have the time to learn that person on the side or whatever, that would be the first person I wanna work with, to be able to somehow, can I make… Can I give you the time to be able to learn your team, their ins and outs and go forward. Yeah, the whole team is very important. But that person you identify that says, Yeah, may not have that time or that structure to be able to do so, or the climate that… Culture would have never had the time to learn. Maybe that would be the first one I would be able to work with. But yeah, it’s an amazing concept.
CreatorOfCulture: Yeah, if you just think about it, someone, say a project leader, a leader of a team, or say someone in a role of leadership just has a ton of people working with them, for them under them, they may not have the time to do the personal touches to learn about everybody. However, what if they had a trusted handler, and if those people really… That we’re getting handled, so to speak, I knew that they were an independent, they were there for their well-being, they knew that it was set up like that and communicated like that, and they’re just making sure people are taken care of, they’re okay. How are you doing today? How was your day? Can I get you anything? Can I help you almost like that servant leadership thing, not to be getting bad or get in the cost to sure that you as a person are okay and that… Do you have what you need to be successful to be happy? To fit in, do you feel like you’re belonging… Okay, no, let’s… As me, as someone in this role of this independent all, maybe I can change something for you, maybe I can help be your advocate, your culture advocate in a way.
So it’s very, very interesting
Brian Moran: With the backgrounds from different workforces coming in, and the studies on cultures of diversity of culture, to use it in that sense of different employees, different religious backgrounds in antis, that would be absolutely… It would be a good move to be a very good move to be able to identify all the things, not so much ahead of time, but as you work through it… And it’s something that I try to start my day with. Every day, everybody, I’m working with. How you’re doing? Are you alright? You’re good. We’re ready for this, and then we’ll go from there. Because if I can’t get past that first check-in in the morning to see how you’re doing, we can’t go, Ford, we’re changing, and I’m trying to change myself. I’m trying to put my people first, and I’m thinking about that mission and we’ll go from there. It’s an amazing thing. We’ve all been in this situation too, where we had bad leadership… I’m not gonna lie. Military had it as well. Civilian services, sometimes it has it, but it’s funny when you have a tight group or a group that might have had a handler or a group that has those commonalities that that’s even a word, that that leaders can make the team even stronger, because a lot of times in the military, we looked at the mission first, and if we had a bad leader that was put in front of us, and we still had to accomplish in the mission, we kind of came together as a team.
And really put forth that effort. On the civilian side, I’ve seen it opportunities where if you had a bad leader, people just willing to let it fail and that’s not the right way to do it, and maybe in that situation where you had somebody that was the handle it, they come forth to try to connect all the dots and kind of mediate things and keep things moving in the right direction, it would be… Well, it would be very… Well, it’s an interesting concept. That shouldn’t go forward.
CreatorOfCulture: Yes, I’m almost thinking though, if they’re not, is not independent in a way, the team, if they have a bad leader and the handler is working for this bad leader, they may not have the trust in the handler, just is somebody else working for the person but
Brian Moran: Once again, we’ll go back to that point where the handle… It’s gonna look at that leader first and say, What do we need? What do you need? It’s buy-in, it has to be buyers, has gotta go first stores, most importantly, somebody’s gotta go second, and that one I’d definitely be the way. It’s different, it’s definitely different. That
CreatorOfCulture: We’ve talked about this, it does relate a little bit, but it’s the concept of the smartest person in the room…
Brian Moran: I’ve lost a few jobs because of that, and it’s basically where you gotta turn around and if you’re not looking at the people, you gotta look at yourself, and if you consider yourself the smartest person in the room, and obviously there are some brilliant tech companies that have the smartest guy in the room, but that person would be nothing without their team, if you feel like you’re the smartest guy in the room, it’s time to leave, it’s one of those things you’re gonna have anger or hate and discontent at times, and you’re like, Why don’t they do this. Why don’t they do that? And honestly, you might not be a good fit for that company or organization, I’m not saying the organization is going right or solid, but sometimes it’s ready to move and you’re gonna find that culture that you’re looking for or somewhere closer to that culture, or more importantly, you’re gonna be in that culture, look around and say, Yeah, I wanna make this the place I wanna work, I wanna work with these people, I wanna go forward. Make yourself a better leader, make yourself a better person, and it’s almost like a do-over, and if you come to that point where you feel like you’re the smartest guy in the room, it’s time to move rooms.
Let’s go forward. Let’s find a new place.
CreatorOfCulture: Is that because, you know, when you feel like that, from your perspective, is that because the place has done innovating… Has it gone stale? Have they just… The fire in the belly is gone, so that culture maybe is about, Hey, what we’re fine, it just is how it is, and not looking to, I guess, improve or progress, are innovate in a certain way.
Brian Moran: Every job or a team or whatever happens, it loses people constantly it’s through attrition, through for whatever reason, retirement, family issues, moving, who knows, there’s a myriad of things that it can happen to, and you always gotta realize that once again, that job or that mission is gonna go forward with or without you, so sometimes even if you’re gonna leave to move on for something else, ’cause you feel you’re at the position, you never know who’s on deck that might come forward to take that team that almost made it to the top, to be able to take it that last little bit, and that… It’s my own personality, like I summed it up the best is I’m a good bad news taker, you give me some bad news… I got it. I’ve spent 20 years in the military, I got 20 years in the fire service. I’m a good bad news taker, I can smile with the best of home, no matter what’s going on, I try to make that positive outlet, granted. And drives some people crazy, but I’m always looking for the good side, so even if it’s time to move and move on, you feel good as you left that someone else is gonna take it that last little bit, it’s a little say answer, a little way to make it work better.
CreatorOfCulture: So what… Did you go through a piece of advice to someone to suggest that
You… Maybe that person, if they’re not kind of thinking that way.
Brian Moran: You wanna look around… And like I said before, I turn around and look back at you, but I think the best thing I can do is protect your assets, and sometimes we get lost on this phrase and they break it apart, or a person may bring a… Protect your assets, what’s your assets that you have, we’re not talking to your financial assets, your family assets, you’re talking about your workplace, your climate, what you’ve built, what you feel comfortable in your experience that you bring to the table, it’s not protect your ass. I think we have a lot of problem with people are like so paranoid that they’re gonna get in trouble or they’re gonna make the wrong decision, there’s nothing worse than the failure to make a decision, you’re almost better off making the wrong decision then not making a decision at all. And I would say that it’s to protect your assets, and if you feel uncomfortable about that and disagree with it, probably the whole conversation we had, then you’re probably gonna protect your ass, so there it is, it would be the ultimate summary right there.
CreatorOfCulture That’s right. Totally. So it’s worth fighting for it. So you go into a good place and there’s a good tight-knit bond of people, you build it, say that the mission is either very explicit or you just know it, that’s worth fighting for, it’s worth protecting your assets, or the all look that you have that you mentioned about being really good at taking bad news and having that perspective that you mentioned is key to the climate, to the culture, maybe one that people want to aspire to create. So I think about further. Do just one final question for you. We’ve already gone to our time, which is unbelievable, is… If you’re gonna sum up culture and a phrase to live with people, what would you say?
Brian Moran: That’s a tough one. We’ve talked about this all week, we’ve talked about it the month prior, in looking at the culture, I would say… We’re gonna go back to that summary that I said of that ultimate peak of that culture, that I would do anything for you. There it is. That’s that moment that I had in the military. Let’s look at the culture of the environment and say, I would become a better leader, I would step forward, I would do above and beyond in the Fire Service, I find myself stepping back or stepping down because that culture is not there to have somebody go forward. And move in different directions, but when you find that one person that you’re like, Alright, I’m gonna line myself for this other person, and we’re gonna create our own culture, and it’s gonna be contagious… That’s the home run, and that’s where you find it and you find it in the weirdest places, but you won’t find it until you turn around and look left and right and say, Alright, what do my guy here and be able to move forward. Mike, does that help?
CreatorOfCulture: It does, sometimes it’s leading up and building that culture from within, and then it gets contagious, goes viral, and then people kind of self-create a culture, self-manage in a way, and then it spills over over time. Brian, thank you so much. Always great insight. So thank you again, Brian.
Brian Moran: Thanks a lot. And move forward and let’s take some of these ideas of rollout. Alright.